Shenanigans!!! And some serious stuff!
I really should be heading to bed right now but I thought that I would blog about the crazy night that just occurred (and plus I haven't blogged for a while and who knows when the next installment will come).
Went out for farewell drinks for friends who are going overseas for 3 months - good chance to catch up with fam and friends....
then the small college contingent arrives... Dani, Lisa, JT and Anthony.... and this is where things start to get interesting...
Well, there was the phone discovery - some poor person had left their phone behind. Let's just say this incident involved Anthony's number ending up in this random person's phone.
Then some how we managed to get onto JT's dream girl - and this was a springboard for a whole bunch of craziness. Conversation on this and related topics lasted for a good 2-3 hours including a trip to Maccas at Ashfield. We all had to list our top 5 qualities of our ideal partner which had Lisa wanting someone who "likes doing stuff" and Anthony set on his wife "being dumber than him" :) We had the privilege of hearing some of JT's theories on boys and girls (you can ask him about those) and many other mad things. [This night seemed a whole lot funnier before I started blogging about it but oh well we will continue...] Pretty much Lisa and I were "psychos" ("but lovable psychos" - quote JT) being absolutely ridiculous.
However, on a more serious note... we did get to discussing what we think Christian leadership looks like in a marriage. For anyone who has spent much time with me lately you will know that I am in "Renovation Period", this pretty much means that my brain is working over-time and I am questioning and re-evaluating pretty much most things in my life and one of the things that I have been thinking about is Christian Leadership in marriage...
I think conventionally we are taught that headship is about the guy being spiritual more mature, have a better grasp of the Bible and making the decisions. Does submission have to mean being quiet and agreeable?... I have been starting to ask if this is really what the Bible is talking about or is that just something we have come up with. Anyways, so some of the helpful things that came out of tonight is that maybe knowledge is about relational knowledge? Maybe the husband has to be the initiator of spiritual things? Maybe who is more "mature" than who doesn't matter? Maybe Bible knowledge is not really where it is at? Relationships is about "knowing" the person. That is relational knowledge. And this kind of true relational knowledge only comes through self-revelational. We know people because they tell us about themselves. And we know God because he has told us about himself in his word. So maybe this is the key to leadership in a marriage... someone who is going to encourage you as an individual and a couple to grow in relational knowledge of God? Because relational knowledge isn't just about the head, it is about expressing love through action. It is not effective unless it in the context of people relating to one another...
I don't know... It is very late and my thoughts are probably very incoherent. If you have any wisdom to donate to this cause of mine please feel free to share it with me.
posted by Naomi @ 7:58 PM
12 Comments:
"Relational knowledge" - I like that!
So intellectual knowledge is just one part of what it means to 'know' God? Chappo says you can't 'know' God unless you're obeying him. That means talking about Christian Ethics isn't really 'knowing' God, until by faith you're turning it into action. Then you're really getting to 'know' God.
So who is this "JT"? He sounds like he's so wise and insightful and intellgent and godly... and HOT! Can you introduce me one day?
Eagerly,
Curious.
Hmmmm... ah he's alright. He seems wiser and more insightful and intelligent than he is, his godliness is a great disguise and he thinks he is mucher hotter than he really is :) he he
(Just Kidding JT!!!)
Wise words. Wise words indeed.
Of course, I am referring initially to your seer-like assessment of JT's character!
So, what does it mean to be "Spiritually more mature" anyway?
I get nervous at the idea that the guy has to be the spiritual initiator. I certainly think he needs to be a driving force, but reciprocity is required for success in my books.
Hmm, maybe I am writing my thoughts too late @ night (plus I'm not sure I know you are have met you).
I do love your conclusions at the end of the blog particularly. In the end, headship & submission need to be seen in the context of each other. Remover either headship or submission from the context of the other & it's too easily to get caught up in dominance or weak-mindedness...
Hey Nomes,
Been lurking and reading your blog during the occasional times that you post. It's heaps good to see you thinking through this sort of stuff. Being on the other side of the fence (where, by the way, the grass isn't greener) I think it's good to bear in mind that obviously all such discussions regarding leadership and headship are always going to be in terms of the ideal, and the reality is that humans are sinful and your husband may change or turn out to not fit the mould you expected. Or circumstances can arise which make it harder for him to lead you, e.g. mental illness. The question of what you do as a wife in those sorts of situations—how you submit when the rubber really hits the road—is a pertinent one worth considering!
in Christ,
/Karen/
Yeah, it is true that you do think about these things in terms of ideals and you are right in saying that you have to have a right doctrine of sin at all times. You can never expect someone to be perfect and I am aware that I will never have a perfect husband - if I ever end up getting married. I guess each situation as it arises needs to be prayerfully assessed and each decision be made in the best way you know how. And it is really hard to know how you would respond to things until they actually happen but you must be aware and prepared for hard things to occur all the time.
I've never gone onto a random blog before and left a comment, but you have to try everything once. It seems rather timely that I happened upon this blog. Next weekend I am going to try something else new and seemingly outrageous and set off to "meet" someone, whom old friends of mine think just might be the person for me. But, I have all sorts of hesitancies to do with the fact that I know he's not going to fit into the "Sydney evangelical" mould, and wondering whether I'll be able to respect his understanding/perspectives ... and so am in the process of sorting through what things I view as non-negotiable and precisely this question of what spiritual leaderships is supposed to look like ... and if I know the guy is going to be in heaven then what else do I need to add to that... It's all theories b/c I haven't met the guy yet and I know it might be some intangible combination of things that is the "deal breaker" in the end ... So, nothing profound to say really except that it's a real issue, for this blogger anyway.
Hi Naomi! Dont know if you remember but i met you at the basement the other week on josh's birthday... Just thought I'd pop in and say hi!
Cool post too by the way!
Was lovely to meet you and the others! Hope you are well!
God bless,
Chelsea
Hey hope greek went ok. I haven't done any work but whats new. Love your latest blog. I love when other people blog about stuff that i was at it helps me to remember what I ve done with all my time and why I'm going to fail my uni degree.
Hey annonymous... Thanks for the visit!! I am really keen to know how that date went and what this guy was like that you met? Its hard not to let your head get carried away with you before you meet guys on blind dates (not that have much experience in that area). So I am interested to know what your brain is thinking now after you have met him. Sometimes the kind of person you expect will be good for you is not actually good for you. God often sends people from left-field and they turn out to be FANTASTIC!! Its also good to listen to people who know you well and care a lot about you. They are also looking out for your best interests and may have some insightful things to say.
Hey Chelsea! It was good to meet you too. I'm glad you made it home ok!!
And Lis... get to work!!!! (as should I!!)
Hey Naomi,
Nice to see you looking well and happy the other night. You should have joined us for pilates!!! Get that pelvic stability going!
I have other thoughts from most people on this topic. Check out www.cbeinternational.com for various articles about headship etc. It works for us.
Happy to talk...
Cheers, Cecily
Anonymous finally came back, and you might never find my comment, but that's OK. Yes, it didn't work with that someone. He seems like a nice, godly guy, and I am sure he is, but I think the pressure strangled me to be quite honest - and the time constraints, and the distance involved in revisiting the whole idea. And perchance I did let ideas run away in my head before hand - why do we have this strange/vain hope that the guy we haven't met yet will be from some kind of different universe, and so much more suitable than the million guys we have met? Anyway, I've almost forgotten the venture at present but my conclusion was that it's just not like buying a pair of shoes :) ... and you just can't seem to be able to pick a suitable option and work with it. But maybe that depends on how much you need the shoes ...
Hey Cecily - I'd love to chat sometime. Perhaps it will be after Nov 24 when the storm dies down around here but it would be great to chat. It was great to see you too and maybe one day I will make it to pilates as well :)
Annonymous - It is great to hear from you :) I can only image how awkward it must be to go out on a blind date with someone. I think it is the hopeless romantic in most of us girls that let our brains get carried away from us, letting us believe that some guy we haven't me or just met could be the guy of our dreams. I have been trying to work out why we do this when ultimately it is so painful an damaging to us. I have been trying to work out what drive or desire or need does this fantasizing fufill in us??? I have wondered if its that desire for a relationship?? the need to be loved?? the need for security or belonging?? Not sure... but I am confident that you are not alone in that.
Well, it is late and I really should get some sleep. So in fear of rambling on I will leave it here for now and head to bed - but it sure was good to hear from you :)
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